Sean ;January 16 at 7:39pm Nelson likes this.
Richard If you really know your wife, and you offer her 2 ice-creams but you know which one she'll choose.. Does she really have a choice? Of course she does.. Just because you know what she'll pick, doesn't change that!
Sean Excellent illustration Richard! But, why would you offer her two, if you knew which one she would choose? Most likely you would just offer her the one she likes, removing the need for a choice...
Richard Well, would she appreciate it enough if I just gave her one, or if she could choose? Besides, people like having a choice and to be able to choose for ourselves, it makes it more personal.
Sean The sense of appreciation is an outstanding point actually.... Is there a difference between a freedom of choice and the illusion that there is a freedom to choose?
Richard There is no illusion, an illusion would be one ice-cream and a mirror.. 2 ice-creams is not an illusion of a choice.. Besides, you're over thinking it, when you offer your wife an ice-cream (choice of 2) and she picks one, does she sit and think through her choice (or lack thereof) or does she just enjoy the ice-cream?
But if you knew her favourite, the option of other choices.... might not really add to the appreciation of her favourite ice cream. ... Since it's her favourite she would appreciate it anyway. What if the option(ability) to choose creates an illusion (sense of appreciation you alluded to) that we're free to choose? Yes, it's true people like having a choice, but what if she knew every flavour of ice cream there ever was.... And after a while always chooses the same one, and every time u offer her a choice she chooses the same 1. What has happened to her freedom to choose?. Now 1 day u just offer her that 1 because u know she has always chosen it in the past....See More
Well for starters, there are a few differences here, 1. I am not God (thank goodness) 2. Choosing an ice-cream is a lot simpler than some of life's decisions and 3. God knows us much better than we know our wives.. You can also think of it ...as watching a reality show on telly for the second time.. You know what choices the people are going to make because you've seen it, but they are still making the choices for themselves. Remember, God is not bound by time like we are! All I can say is thank goodness He is God and not me, I'd be confused by now :-) I suppose if Jesus wanted us to understand this completely, he would have spelled it out for us in the bible. See More
Sean Again, your choice of illustration is really good. In this case since we're experimenting in thought with the idea of freedom, the actual choice is irrelevant, it could be the choice between saving 2 people...Freedom of choice is found in almost every page of our Holy Word, starting with 2 trees in the Garden of Eden...
Easter I feel the need to write this down. Best discussion I’ve read in a while:)
Sean Your reality TV illustration and the question of time is also a really good, one. It will take me a while to think of that in terms of freedom of choice and God's all knowingness....will get back to you (but don't hold your breath), hehehe. Tnx Easter
Richard I've actually been preparing a sermon on this, it's tough to get your mind around it, and when you do, it's equally as difficult to explain. It's good to have discussions like this, keeps you on top of things.. Glad you enjoyed it Easter..
Sean Cool. Me too. I do believe that at the end of the day, when all is said and done, and let's say life nears its end for an individual, at least then, they acknowledge life is indeed psychological and then become very philosophical or spiritual... (Generally)
Andrew This physical world is a classroom for the soul and already has a pre-set curriculum. It does not matter if God already knows the choices we make. The point is for us to learn in this classroom through the act of making choices and experiencing the consequences of our decisions. In this way our spirit is educated and grown to maturity.
January 17 at 6:51pm
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